French Interviews with Yukio Mishima - 1966
By Jean Prasteau & Jean-Claude Courdy
This interview was broadcast on French national television in 1966 as part of the program A la Vitrine du Libraire, after the publishing of Mishima’s novel After the Banquet.
Jean Prasteau
We have the privilege of having Mr. Mishima among us, it is to him now that I will ask the questions. Mr. Mishima, are there two Japanese literatures: one traditional and the other modern?
Mishima
There is no opposition between the two trends. Contemporary Japanese literature is a synthesis between an important Western contribution and the traditional national effort.
Jean Prasteau
Which of the two trends do you attach yourself to? To the Ancients or to the Moderns?
Mishima
I would like to speak Japanese…
Jean Prasteau
Please.
Mishima
[Translator]
If we would like to define the general trend of my work, let's say that it is the synthesis of aesthetics and psychology. By tradition, moreover in Japan, aesthetics and psychology are not two distinct elements. Aesthetics do not oppose themselves to realism. I think that this is original to Japan. There is among Japanese writers a school to which I do not participate in fact, which is that of the lived novel called the “I-Novel.” It is a sort of fusion of the Western romantic literature and the confessional literature of Japanese monks in the Middle Ages. This literary form has enjoyed great popularity since the end of the 19th century.
Jean Prasteau
Is there a French writer who had a particular influence on you?
Mishima
Yes. Raymond Radiguet, whom I admire very much. I read “Le Bal du comte d'Orgel” when I was very young. This book struck me very much.
Jean Prasteau
What is the situation of the Japanese writer in contemporary society?
Mishima
The situation of the contemporary Japanese writer recalls that of French authors in the era of Alexandre Dumas and Émile Zola. Could I speak Japanese?
[Translator]
The Japanese have long stayed faithful to this formula of novels published as serials in newspapers. Ten years ago still, it was common to see big newspapers that were printing five million copies, publishing quality novels as serials.
Jean Prasteau
What is the influence of television in the life of the Japanese writer? Is it for him a new medium of expression?
Mishima
[Translator]
These days, the middle class in Japan is very influenced by television. It tends to give preference to television shows rather than reading. Despite everything, this formula of newspaper serials is so ingrained in people's minds that writers continue to first publish their novels in literary journals.
Jean Prasteau
Did, for example, the bomb inspire books?
Mishima
[Translator]
The Hiroshima problem, for us writers, is extremely difficult to approach. It remains in the depth of our hearts like a deep personal feeling like an abyss. For a few years after the end of the war, novelists dealt with the Hiroshima problem. But from a political point of view. Other authors told their personal experience of the drama in the form of an autobiographical novel. Fifteen years after the bomb, we began to see fictional works approaching the subject from a more objective point of view. Allow me to cite the example of my novel “La Belle Étoile1.” Currently, the novelist Isuza2 is publishing a book on the bomb in the form of the diary of a young girl from Hiroshima who died in the atomic disaster. It is a good novel and written in an extremely objective spirit.
Jean Prasteau
Thank you, Mr. Mishima. I remind that we are talking about “After the Banquet” by Yukio Mishima which is published by Gallimard.
This interview was conducted by Jean-Claude Courdy in 1966, after the showing of his movie Yūkoku, foreshadowing his ritual suicide, at the Tour short film festival. It can be found in the bonus content of the French edition of Mishima’s movie “Yūkoku, Rites d'amour et de mort”.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Mishima, they say of you that you are an exhibitionist. Is that true, and if yes, what of you are you showing?
Mishima
Inevitably, all writers are exhibitionists now. As for myself, I practice physical exhibitionism because I'm shy. Behind that mask I can hide.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Mishima who are you then, really?
Mishima
I'm a Japanese author, a representative. I don't like literature, it's a bit like a Don Juan not liking women.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Mishima are you aware of what you are and what you represent for the youth of Japan? There's a Mishima myth much like there was a myth of Cocteau in France. They tell stories of your worst extravagances, and they think that with you anything is possible. Mishima you live here in a Bourgeois house. Are you a bourgeois?
Mishima
There's no such thing as a Japanese bourgeoisie. There are three classes in our society. The descendants of the Samurai, the descendants of the farmers, and the descendants of the merchants. As for me I belong to descendants of the samurai and descendants of farmers. I have worked as a farmer but I retain the art of the samurai.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Do you consider yourself a political author?
Mishima
I'm not a political writer, like a cat or a lion. I don't force a task upon myself.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Do you consider that a problem as it was for Camus? Do you have solidarity or are you merely solitary? Is there a term between those two extremes that doesn't spell out mediocrity to you?
Mishima
A person with solidarity and a solitary person are never diametrically opposed. I don't believe in solidarity coming from an author when it could have come from a solitary person. We are bound together like a crystal rosary, a bead of crystal in a row remains a crystal nonetheless. There's no term in between the rosary and the crystal bead. The crystal bead can exist independently and become a rosary, and with the rosary each bead remains independent.
Jean-Claude Courdy
What do you think of democracy that implicitly contains the idea of solidarity?
Mishima
Democracy is a politically conceived idea and can therefore, in a technical way, be considered an imported idea to this country from foreign ones. I prefer to see it in a technical way. I therefore feel obliged to support democracy.
Jean-Claude Courdy
In the world of Mishima, where would you place the importance of justice and charity?
Mishima
In order to be fair one must be angry at everything but anger isn't good for the stomach. In order to be charitable one must always smile, but the smile spoils the mind. I view society as chaos that I decline to take responsibility for.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Your latest book After the Banquet was recently translated to French, what were your sources of inspiration?
Mishima
I drew my inspiration from my Eros, more specifically from the Eros of our cultural traditions, that can be found inside my Eros like a sacred serpent hidden at the bottom of a spring.
Jean-Claude Courdy
What of Japan do you adhere to?
Mishima
Noh theatre of the 15th century.
Jean-Claude Courdy
If you weren't Japanese, what type of culture would you choose as your own?
Mishima
I would without a doubt choose French culture, especially with its greco-roman traditions.
Jean-Claude Courdy
What sense do you have of your past, and of your future?
Mishima
None. What I'm interested in is the present.
Jean-Claude Courdy
One could see children as a symbol of life. Do you like children?
Mishima
Yes and since I have children of my own, generally speaking, I'm interested in them.
Jean-Claude Courdy
What's the value of life?
Mishima
I don't think the value of life is that high.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Would you care if you died?
Mishima
No, I would be afraid to die. But I would like above all to die a tranquil death. It seems to me that in that is courtesy of the dead for the ones that live on after him.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Looking at you from the outside you might look like a revolutionary, yet most of your actions, marriage, etc remain within the traditions.
Mishima
Yes. In Japan, the revolutionary must act under the aegis of tradition.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Are you faithful to your wife?
Mishima
Yes, I'm faithful to my wife. I think that's a good way to hold on to a marriage. But it's not the way to become wiser.
Jean-Claude Courdy
What do you think of homosexuality?
Mishima
It's an ancient feeling, more natural in Japan, than the love between the two sexes. But this long tradition has been broken because of the criticism coming from the American missionaries that settled in this country in the 19th century.
Jean-Claude Courdy
You've told us that you are a serious writer, so I'd like to ask you if you take seriously or feel close to Salvador Dali?
Mishima
I can take anything seriously and perhaps it a fault of mine, and I may loose myself to ridicule sometimes. Dali, however, is never ridiculous. He is sublime.
Jean-Claude Courdy
Suicide for the Japanese is an important act. Is there a justification for suicide in your eyes?
Mishima
We have two kinds of suicide in Japan. One for the weak or vanquished, and one for the strong and courageous. I detest the former and admire the latter.
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